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Forums: Index Watercooler ORAS redesign

Hi guys! Everyone concerned with the success of Pokémon at Wikia — both you guys here at the Pokémon Wiki and we in the Staff offices — have been trying to improve the look and feel of this community for a few weeks now. This is especially important as we move toward the ORAS launch.

If you've been following our deliberations, you'll know that there was great ambiguity in Forum:Vote for new wordmark as to the kind of wordmark we should have, and especially on this notion of whether we had a genuine colour palette' here. A colour palette is awfully important, as it's the design foundation on which any wikia is built. The best looking wikias have a very clear sense of colour. They use the same colours — exactly — in the same situations, and they make sure that all the colours harmonise.

After talking it around with some others on staff, we found it incredibly difficult to perceive a particular colour palette in operation here. For instance, on the front page, there are about eight slightly different shades of blue. Infoboxes have wildly different colours. And tables on pages are themselves differently coloued from both each other and any infoboxes that are on the page.

This lack of colour synergy makes it incredibly difficult for me, as the designer working with you, to offer solutions. So in consultation with my boss, we decided that the best way forward was simply to give you a colour palette, via a full-scale site redesign!

This is well beyond what Energy X's design request was for, but honestly if there is no colour palette, the community will never reach its full design potential.

If you go to w:c:czechitout, you'll see the proposed new redesign. The colour palette is based upon artwork submitted to us directly from Nintendo. The blues are taken directly from Sapphire artwork, but brought down a few shades so that dark text would still be visible. And if you go to a page like w:c:czechitout:Headline test and look at the right rail, you'll see that the contrasting gold matches the gold in the wordmark.

Oh and the wordmark, we're quite proud to say, doesn't come from us, but rather a member of your own community. We're very happy to support the work of Adrián Perry GZ, whose design we've tweaked only for transparency issues.

The background is taken directly from ORAS artwork provided by Nintendo, and represents a much higher-quality effort than was my initial effort. Note that it displays differently depending upon how wide one's browser is stretched. That means it's a responsive design, and something you readers will probably have fun playing with.

As for the content of the front page, you'll notice it's changed somewhat. In the first place, there was kind of an overload of information on the front page, so we've scaled it back a bit. We've also included video from the official Pokémon channel on YouTube. Most of it may seem basic, but it tries to give a well-rounded view of the franchise by giving a motion-picture glance of the main components of the franchise. Now, these videos do mean that we no longer have space for some of your features, but we at the Wikia offices find hat videos tend to make people stay a little longer and play a little more. It's hoped that by having more of a multimedia approach to your front page, we'll gain readers who are staying longer. So, yes, you've lost some front page features, but we think what you've gained is increased interactivity.

We've also introduced an official font, supplied directly by Nintendo, using a red found in the Omega Ruby logo, and one that's equally legibly on the blue background as well as the gold of the right rail (that is, the modules that are like "Recent Wiki Activity" and "Must Watch Videos"). So this is not something we found on the web somewhere. It's not an approximation of Nintendo fonts. It's the real deal, and you'll find it all over that ad for the UK ORAS code giveaway.

Given the number of specialised templates you guys have, I've done just about as much as I can on my test site, so I'm at the point where I need your faith and trust to go ahead and move this design to the live site. Now, this design is obviously going to mean some work in redesigning infoboxes and tables. And there will be a period of a few days where some of your current templates won't look "right" in this new palette. But it won't take long to make suitable changes. And it would be massively more efficient if we could just go ahead and make the move after a few days of discussion. Just to give one example, I can't know, for sure, that the blog feature you guys have on your front page will work with this design until I can actually put the design on your front page. That's just because I have no blog entries on my test wiki, and it would be faster just to use your existing blogs.

It's important to note that I'm not saying you have to take this design or leave it. If you don't quite like the blue background, we can change that. If you're not happy with the language in some areas, we can change that too. All I'm looking for here is approval to put the on the site, where tweaks will be much easier to make, and where I can make links that actually go somewhere.

So what do you guys think? Does it look good enough that you could trust me to put it on the site and make tweaks there? — CzechOut @fandom 20:23, October 23, 2014 (UTC)

Comments

Nintendo was involved... GHIHFBUOFHIHDIOUBDIUHIOFBDHUHUBJFHUIHDJBSHUHIJKBJSDHDBKBHFJBDHUFIJBFUHUDJ (Drools). Anyway I really like the design of the main page, however the background is a bit off and the Legendarys should be moved up a bit more. Other then that I really enjoy the design, supporting it! --I'm Yoponot and I approve this message (talk) 21:00, October 23, 2014 (UTC)

Wow, I am impressed. I think we could also include the red color (in reference to Red & Blue, the first Worldwide games that have been launched). Anyway, the deal with the infoboxes is that the idea is to match the color with the Pokémon types (pink for fairy, purple for dragon, yellow for electric etc.). But that does not say we shouldn't change that. And uh, there are also the tables and navboxes that list episodes, Pokémon, chapters and more, the color being used for the games it were featured in (Black & White ← black and white colors, Gold & Silver ← gold and silver colors.

For the wordmark, it is good to see the Pokémon logo included. The Poké Ball gives it some neutrality for changing the mascot, which is (more or less) nice. We cannot bicker around which mascot is better, can't we? Otherwise, that would just lead to a point we cannot agree on something. Font is a surprise, didn't think that would be possible, and is approved (at least by me).

Youtube account, I think, has been lost to us, we cannot gain access, like the old Twitter account (hence new one was made). I created the jukebox template to include videos from games and anime, primarily songs and music. It should have more videos, though.

But, ah, I guess you guys and gals from the staff know more what can be improved. Energy X 21:33, October 23, 2014 (UTC)

Looks good to me. I'm not that great with design or templates, so I won't be much help there. Anyways, thanks very much to all those who worked on this. I'm impressed by the detail and thought that went into this. --Shockstorm (talk) 04:13, October 24, 2014 (UTC)

This looks amazing. I'm surprised and impressed at the amount of work wch has gone into this to make it look how it does. If the featured blogs doesn't work on this main page then it's not a nightmare as we already have a sort of mini version of that on community messages. RainbowShifter 05:43, October 24, 2014 (UTC)

I like the font on this proposed Main Page but, what would happen to the navigation of the generations on the main page. Ellis99 CODE XANA 18:19, October 24, 2014 (UTC)

Oh my goodness. I like it a lot. It's really amazing. I think the background is pretty cool, but yes, maybe we could have the legendaries moved a little up. One feature we currently have and would like to maintain, is the episode chart. Also, I don't think the videos there would be necessary, as they've already said that there's the template with them. Another thing I like a lot are the headlines. The headlines have been a problem for me since I arrived to this Wiki, and it's great that there's now a way to difference a subtitle from the text. Overall, I like it a lot, and I'm very excited to have a change soon, we will finally have personality on looks. 382Adrián Perry GZ383 21:42, October 24, 2014 (UTC)

Remaai's Comments

Okay, so we're making progress here, but there are some issues. Too many clashing colors. I think the blues need to be a little more subdued. The red can be incorporated somehow; I'm not sure that the titles are the place. I've included some variants below my comments. The incredibly loud gold is way too much. Red and blue are enough to work with in a palette we don't need that many colors. The background image has a lot of this gold/yellow and I think it is very distracting. In any case, we cannot use that image unless we can find a much higher resolution. That one is way too small. It is clearly pixelated on even a standard screen size.

The body font needs to be a little larger, at least on the front page. For a wiki especially, I would strongly suggest we use a sans serif font, and at the very least not times new roman. The header font is good, as long as we don't overuse it it should be fine.

The workmark needs to be cropped: there is a large empty space on the right of the image. I've already voiced my opinion on the wordmark design.

Sample

Sample2

~remaai Mini egg 08:02, October 24, 2014 (UTC)

Well, It looks good but the background should have been better! I'm not sure if those videos are needed because we have the jukebox template that included videos from anime and games like what Energy X said. Nectaria 025 (talk) 09:01, October 24, 2014 (UTC)

I like the color, but the background is barely visible (resolution 1366*768) Mercenary2811 (talk) 11:11, October 24, 2014 (UTC)

I must ask, what happens to Next Episode template? Is it intentionally removed? If so, I guess we can move it to the news instead. If not, I guess I could also make a NextChapter template (to sponsor manga up a bit). Energy X 17:39, October 24, 2014 (UTC)

As X stated about the removal of the Next Episode template (comment above), what will happen to the navigation of the generations and as another user said (can't remember who), what will happen to the featured blog section. I love the headers though. Ellis99 CODE XANA 13:15, November 4, 2014 (UTC)

Slay's Comments

  • The "Around Wikia's Network" needs to have the background "fade"/gradient removed. It is the same color blue (as the rest of the page) at the top and then it fades into a white at the bottom; not the best look.
  • At some points on the page, people may complain (some complaints may not be voiced because of unsureness of how to voice them) that the dark font is hard to read on the blue background; specifically the dark-grey/charcoal/black font on the faded-to-dark blue on the right side of the main page.
  • I personally think that there could be a form of background transparency placed on the page, so that the background can be seen better; similar to the psychusa wiki.
  • The navigation bar could have the "Second.nor.child" (not the correct name for it) lines removed, so that when the navigation bar/menu goes from one content tab to another, there aren't little grey/white lines that show up in-between the other tabs.
  • The "HR /" lines could be a more visible color on the left side, on the right side they appear fine against the darker blue background.
    • The Category container and the "Around Wikia's Network" Container could have the same thing done to it.
  • I would like to offer, that if red is going to be used for headings, that it is also used in the navigation bar, to equalize the "amount" of red to blue vice versa.
  • Tabber should probably be themed to go with the rest of the coloration, as light-purplish-grey doesn't go quite so well with the rest of the theme.

Phew! Please keep in mind, these are just my observations and opinions! c:

Avingnon  (talk)  14:50,10/24/2014  0 edits

It Looks Okay To Me.

{{SUBST:User:BelieveInMagic814/Sig2}} 15:10, October 24, 2014 (UTC)  

Approved! Maybe some animation might turn out well too! :)Pikachu Sensei (talk) 14:57, October 25, 2014 (UTC)Pikachu Sensei

I like the background, it looks fine to me. The logo for Pokémon Wiki doesn't go with it though. --GamerTimeUS (talk) 19:56, October 25, 2014 (UTC)

Why not? It is the best (neutral) logo we got. Besides, we shouldn't be too picky, else ORAS would be launched and we would be still bickering about. Energy X 20:13, October 25, 2014 (UTC)

Well, I'm just saying that it looks weird to me. The Wiki part of the logos border lines are too thin and it looked weird to me.--GamerTimeUS (talk) 20:27, October 25, 2014 (UTC)

Conclusion

I have responded to most of you individually on your talk pages, so as to keep this thread an area to list your specific comments about this redesign. All of your comments are being, or have been, considered and most will in some way affect the design. Thanks so much to everyone who participated!

It seems to me that the general consensus of the above remarks is that most everyone likes the design, if with specific reservations. While not all your objections will necessarily be addressed, I think we can safely move on to the next phase of the project.

In the coming day or so, the design at w:c:czechitout will be moved over here, and the process of tweaking it will begin.

The final phase of the project is to create a standardised look for infoboxes and tables, so that they, too, fit into the colour palette. Because you have so many kinds and colours of infoboxes on this wikia, don't be surprised that some of them will initially "fail" against the new colour palette. Redesigning your infoboxes is kind of even further beyond the design request that you initially put in, and I cant justify doing the actual work of converting every single infobox and table that you have. What I can do is help you set up one as a standard template that you can then easily copy it around to each individual infobox. So while the process of conversion will depend on you, I don't think it will overwhelm you. — CzechOut @fandom 16:48, October 27, 2014 (UTC)

Great news. A question, does the infobox change apply to navboxes as well (or any other similar template)? Energy X 17:59, October 27, 2014 (UTC)

Delay

Hey guys :) Sorry for the delay in implementation of your design. I had what can only be described as a "computer disaster" at the beginning of the week when I was unexpectedly forced to upgrade to the next version of Mac OS X — at a time very much not of my choosing.

I'll be trying to get your new site up this weekend, instead.

In the meantime, though, I've got some great news! As you can see in the above discussion, one of the common complaints with the design was that the fonts weren't rendering particularly well in Firefox. Well, I discovered the problem also extended to Internet Explorer 11, as well. So yesterday I spent quite a chunk of time investigating this problem, and as far as I can tell, I totally solved it. The site looks the same for me in all major browsers, Mac and Windows alike.

If you were one of the people who didn't like the fonts on the redesign, please take another look at w:c:czechitout and tell me if you don't see an obvious improvement to the font situation. — CzechOut @fandom 13:46, October 31, 2014 (UTC)

Well, I checked on Firefox and seems good enough. The only issue I only see is that the background does not resize itself to fit to the page. In other words, this.

Background error

The background image

Energy X 14:01, October 31, 2014 (UTC)

background

Like a few people before me have stated, the background looks really low res. Plus you can't even see one of the legendarys! I think it needs to be changed and/or upgraded. --I'm Yoponot and I approve this message (talk) 17:04, October 31, 2014 (UTC)

Actually, as seen here, the image is big enough, just need to be resized. Energy X 22:14, October 31, 2014 (UTC)

This image has been blown up to that resolution, but that does not change the resolution of the image is not high enough. You cannot just enlarge an image like that. ~remaai Mini egg 07:42, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

Concluding this round of the redesign

Hey guys :) So I'm at a point now where I've answered the original admin request by:

  • helping tease a wordmark from the community, and reformatting it so that you can change it on your own (provided you have Photoshop) as the need arises in the future. That .psd, fully layered, is at community:file:Pokemon Wordmark 12112014.psd.
  • going through several iterations of a background with you. The current iteration addresses many of the community's concerns, particularly those cited immediately above.

Additionally, I also started you guys down the path of building a format based upon an actual colour palette, and have provided a main page redesign and font rescheme based upon fonts provided by Nintendo themselves.

I think we still have some work to do with making the redesign as good as it can be. The biggest challenge ahead of us is reskinning the infoboxes and navboxes so that they're all a single color. I understand that there is a kind of logic to the color coding, but having so many colors in use makes it all but impossible to come up with site coloring that works on every single page. In general, what I've done with the color palette is simply to choose the wordmark as the guide. Only colors found in the wordmark are currently in the design. That might be a good plan going forward with the infoboxes and navboxes.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time in my schedule at the moment to help you refit every infobox found here. And, ultimately, you'll have to decide if you want to do that. My schedule should clear a little by the end of November and beginning of December.

For now, I think you have a site that is significantly improved in time for the launch of ORAS. It's not perfect, of course, because wikias are ever-evolving creatures. So take some time to kick the tires of the new design. Go and find pages where the design shows flaws. Make a note of them, and we'll keep tweaking in the weeks ahead. — CzechOut @fandom 11:53, November 17, 2014 (UTC)

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